Carl Bird: Difference between revisions

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'''Carl Bird''' (born July 4, 1969) is an American reprobate, gambler, habitual schemer, and recurring criminal offender. He is the older and considerably meaner cousin of [[Big Bird]], whom he physically resembles.

'''Carl Bird''' (born July 4, 1969) is an American reprobate, gambler, habitual schemer, and recurring criminal offender. He is the older and considerably meaner cousin of Big Bird, whom he physically resembles.

Carl is best known for his criminal record in the greater Chicagoland area of Illinois, but (as he frequently attempts to advertise) is also a guitarist associated with the hard-rock band '''[[Redline]]''', although his actual musical contribution has frequently been questioned. He is also known for a lengthy history of misdemeanor criminal activity, unstable housing, compulsive gambling, poorly planned business ventures, public disturbances, and repeated encounters with security personnel and law enforcement.

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=== Other employment ===

Carl has subsequently worked intermittently in manual labor, entertainment, promotion, automotive work, and various informal enterprises.

Carl has subsequently worked intermittently in manual labor, entertainment, promotion, automotive work, and various informal enterprises. Most of these arrangements have been short-lived. His employment history is difficult to reconstruct because Carl frequently describes gambling, reselling merchandise, informal contracting, music performances, and personal favors as "jobs."

~~Most of these arrangements have been short-lived.~~

For a very brief period in 2014 he produced and broadcasted [[Uncle Carl's Radio Show]].

~~His employment history is difficult to reconstruct because~~ Carl ~~frequently describes gambling, reselling merchandise, informal contracting, music performances, and personal favors as "jobs~~."

[[Timeline of Carl Bird Occupations]]

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=== Felony and incarceration accounts ===

Carl's exact felony history is one of the more inconsistent areas of documented continuity.

Carl's exact felony history is one of the more inconsistent areas of documented continuity. Some accounts describe him as a career misdemeanor offender who has deliberately remained just below the threshold of serious felony prosecution. Other accounts state that Carl was convicted of '''grand larceny in New York''' and served approximately '''eight years in prison''' after committing the crime while attempting to resolve a financial crisis involving [[Tony "No Nose" Catellini]].

Some accounts describe him as a career misdemeanor offender who has deliberately remained just below the threshold of serious felony prosecution.

Other accounts state that Carl was convicted of '''grand larceny in New York''' and served approximately '''eight years in prison''' after committing the crime while attempting to resolve a financial crisis involving [[Tony "No Nose" Catellini]].

His prison tattoos and repeated references to incarceration strongly indicate that Carl has served significant jail or prison time regardless of the precise conviction history.

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Carl's actual guitar skill is generally considered limited. He knows several basic chords, blues-rock shapes, and recognizable fragments of common hard-rock riffs. His primary technique consists of aggressive strumming, volume, posing, and pointing at members of the audience. More technically skilled musicians within his social circle tend to tolerate him rather than regard him as a peer. His equipment is usually in poor repair, "like something he traded a set of used tires for at a pawn shop" according to [[Redline]] keyboardist Johann Heimberg.

== Relationship with technology ==

Carl seems to be extremely resistant to using pieces of technology that were not in widespread use in the 1980s. He seems to not understand the point of things such as CDs, DVDs, cellular phones or flat panel TVs. Despite clearly running a social media page on Facebook, he appears to only be tangentially aware of what the internet is or how it works. He often mentions relying on VHS and cassette tapes for entertainment, only seems to use land line telephones, often speaks of the utility of CB radio (claiming "all the fat chicks hang out on channel 12") and is fascinated by the idea of playing video games on the Nintendo Entertainment System (the cartridges for which he calls "tapes").

Carl has made internet posts about various computers he has owned, but all of said computers were completely inadequate for regular use on the internet, having been salvaged from dumps or acquired in a trade at a pawn shop. It is theorized that Carl accesses his Facebook through computers at public libraries.

When forced to interact with a newer piece of technology, he will often mumble about "all this new shit" and lose interest in attempting to accomplish the task at hand.

== Personal Relationships ==

=== Juan Gonzalez ===

One of Carl's longtime associates is '''[[Juan Gonzalez]]'''.

One of Carl's longtime associates is '''[[Juan Gonzalez]]'''. Carl and Juan have appeared together in numerous contexts, primarily centered around quasi-legal mobile food service ventures, such as their ill-fated food truck business [[Taco Jabronis]]. Gonzalez also works for [[Mercado La Colonia]], a small Mexican grocery store in Melrose Park, Illinois. Carl often appears in and around the store trying obtain store credit or run small time scams on the customers, much to the chagrin of the store's owner/manager '''[[Rakesh Subramanian]]'''.

Carl and Juan have appeared together in numerous contexts, primarily centered around quasi-legal mobile food service ventures, such as their ill-fated food truck business [[Taco Jabronis]].

Juan is among the relatively small number of people whom Carl appears to regard as a genuine friend rather than a potential source of transportation, alcohol, money, or temporary housing.

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=== Zutroy Zagreb ===

'''[[Zutroy Zagreb]]''' is a Hungarian American booking agent and entertainment-industry connection who has arranged work involving Carl, usually with poor outcomes.

'''[[Zutroy Zagreb]]''' is a Hungarian-American booking agent and entertainment-industry connection who has arranged work involving Carl, usually with poor outcomes. Zagreb's humorless, transactional personality frequently clashes with Carl's improvisational approach to contracts and scheduling. Zagreb once described Carl as "a fucking clown".

Zagreb's humorless, transactional personality frequently clashes with Carl's improvisational approach to contracts and scheduling. Zagreb once described Carl as "a fucking clown".

=== Darnell Watson ===

Carl has repeatedly crossed paths with promoter and entrepreneur '''[[Darnell Watson]]'''.

Carl has repeatedly crossed paths with promoter and entrepreneur '''[[Darnell Watson]]'''. Watson is associated with the [[Darnell Watson Funk Experience]] and many other haphazardly arranged events.

Watson is associated with the [[Darnell Watson Funk Experience]] and many other haphazardly arranged events.

The two possess fundamentally different approaches to business: Watson typically attempts to construct an actual promotional enterprise, while Carl tends to identify opportunities for free admission, alcohol, merchandise resale, side gambling, or unauthorized participation. However, given that Watson's endeavors are frequently quasi-legal, he occasionally relies on Carl to handle some of the event management. (Chasing away people who are asking too many questions, event security or taking the fall in case something goes sideways.)

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=== Mike Jorpa ===

'''[[Mike Jorpa]]''' is ~~one of Carl's most persistent antagonists.~~

'''[[Mike Jorpa]]''' is is an officious security supervisor known for an unusually rigid interpretation of his limited authority, and someone against whom Carl has declared a personal vendetta due to a series of parking lot loitering incidents throughout the 2020s.

~~Jorpa~~ is an officious security supervisor known for an unusually rigid interpretation of his limited authority.

Carl ~~regards Jorpa with open contempt~~.

Their encounters often involve:

* parking regulations;

* loitering

* loitering;

* open alcohol

* unauthorized vehicles;

* smoking

* open alcohol;

* fires

* smoking;

* littering

* fires;

* trespassing

* littering;

* trespassing;

* and Carl's insistence that privately employed security personnel "aren't real cops."

~~Jorpa, for his part, appears to view Carl as a personal challenge to the entire concept of rules.~~

~~One notable encounter occurred in an '''Elgin strip-mall parking lot''', where Carl established an informal campsite beside his van despite a prominently posted '''NO LOITERING''' sign.~~

~~Carl sat in a folding lawn chair drinking a tallboy of Miller High Life beside a small burn barrel while Jorpa confronted him from a security golf cart with its amber warning lights activated.~~

~~The surrounding area contained substantial litter.~~

~~The incident has become one of the most recognizable examples of the Carl-Jorpa rivalry.~~

== Vehicles ==

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He strongly favors 1970s full-size American conversion vans, particularly those featuring:

* ~~custom~~ murals of fantasy art

* exterior painted murals of fantasy art

* shag carpeting

* nonfunctional interior lighting

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* brakes always one hard slam from being completely shot

* emissions controls being a mere suggestion

* at least one broken window

* at least one broken window (usually repaired with packing tape)

* body damage

* dragging tailpipe

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Hey baby, wanna go for a ride in the sidepipe wagon? This eight track player only plays one song: Space Truckin' by Deep Purple!

</blockquote>

Amusingly, Bird has been known to say his van "only plays" other songs as well:

* Slow Ride by Foghat

* Frankenstein by Edgar Winter Group

* Take It On The Run by REO Speedwagon

* Detroit Rock City by Kiss

* Radar Love by Golden Earring

When confronted with inquiries by police or security officials, Carl has denied owning vehicles while standing immediately beside them.

== Housing ==

[[File:Carl apartment 2.jpg|thumb|A photo taken by a landlord after evicting Bird]]

Carl has experienced chronic housing instability.

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* parking lots

* mobile homes

* a Bank of America vestibule intended for after-hours customer access

Carl does not generally describe himself as homeless. Instead, he considers himself to have "places to stay." Some accounts describe Carl deliberately cultivating romantic relationships with older women in order to secure temporary housing, such as his disastrous marriage to [[Sue Bob White]] of West Virginia. Carl often publicly laments getting kicked out of Sue Bob's trailer.

Carl does not generally describe himself as homeless. Instead, he considers himself to have "places to stay." Some accounts describe Carl deliberately cultivating romantic relationships with older women in order to secure temporary housing, such as his disastrous marriage to [[Sue Bob White]] of West Virginia. Carl often publicly laments getting kicked out of Sue Bob's trailer. He also prefers to cohabitate with older women due to their tendency to have various medicines on-hand that he can pilfer.

~~[[File:Carl apartment 2.jpg|thumb|A photo taken by a landlord after evicting Bird]]~~

On the odd occasion that Carl has been able to secure permanent housing, he is almost immediately evicted due to extreme sanitation, noise, and criminal activity concerns.

== Gambling ==

Gambling is one of Carl's ~~most persistent behaviors~~.

Gambling is one of Carl's favorite pastimes.

He regularly participates in:

* ~~poker;~~

* legal and illegal sports betting

* ~~sports~~ betting;

* betting on horse and dog races

* ~~informal~~ card games;

* betting on Polish table tennis matches

* lottery schemes;

* barroom card games

* ~~bar gambling;~~

* lottery and racketeering schemes

* and wagers involving objects that would not normally be considered appropriate stakes.

* pool

* video poker and slot machines

* wagers involving objects that would not normally be considered appropriate stakes

Carl has won ~~vans in poker games~~ and ~~has also~~ lost vehicles, musical equipment~~, money,~~ and ~~personal possessions~~ through gambling.

Carl has won and lost vehicles, musical equipment and residences through gambling, and he has owed considerable sums of money to various parties throughout his life.

~~His understanding of probability appears highly selective.~~

== Alcohol, smoking and drug use ==

Carl ~~generally interprets losing streaks as evidence that~~ he is ~~"due~~."

Carl is a heavy smoker. A lit cigarette is present in his mouth almost any time he is photographed, and he has demonstrated little regard for posted smoking restrictions. He once got ejected from Brookfield Zoo for smoking a cigar in a restroom, after which he complained on social media:

~~== Alcohol and smoking ==~~

they don't let you smoke cigars in the bathroom at the zoo no more!

~~Carl is a heavy smoker.~~

</blockquote>

~~A cigarette is present~~ in the ~~overwhelming majority of documented appearances.~~

He ~~has demonstrated~~ little regard for ~~posted smoking restrictions~~.

Carl is also a functional alcoholic. His drinks of choice include low-end fortified wine, malt liquor, and cheap vodka. He shows little regard for laws involving public intoxication, open containers, and public consumption. The floor of his van is usually littered with empty alcohol containers, something which he attempts to justify to police by claiming that since his van is his home, he's doing nothing wrong. He has also been arrested several times for buying alcohol for minors and has a number of DUIs across multiple states.

~~His preferred alcoholic drinks tend toward inexpensive beer and malt liquor~~.

He does not consider his relationship with alcohol to be an addiction. When asked about it, Carl simply says “I love drinking, I don’t need it.”

~~Miller High Life tallboys are particularly associated~~ with ~~him~~.

Carl will generally consume any substance that comes his way, with a strong preference for prescription medications (usually pilfered from whatever medicine cabinet he has access to) and cheap highs such as inhalants. He tends to not buy or sell street drugs (“too much heat”) but always seems to know where to get them. When offered cannabis, he will refuse, claiming things like "that shit's for hippies".

== Aliases ==

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 }}
-'''Carl Bird''' (born July 4, 1969) is an American reprobate, gambler, habitual schemer, and recurring criminal offender. He is the older and considerably meaner cousin of [[Big Bird]], whom he physically resembles.
+'''Carl Bird''' (born July 4, 1969) is an American reprobate, gambler, habitual schemer, and recurring criminal offender. He is the older and considerably meaner cousin of Big Bird, whom he physically resembles.
 Carl is best known for his criminal record in the greater Chicagoland area of Illinois, but (as he frequently attempts to advertise) is also a guitarist associated with the hard-rock band '''[[Redline]]''', although his actual musical contribution has frequently been questioned. He is also known for a lengthy history of misdemeanor criminal activity, unstable housing, compulsive gambling, poorly planned business ventures, public disturbances, and repeated encounters with security personnel and law enforcement.
@@ Line 85: / Line 85: @@
 === Other employment ===
-Carl has subsequently worked intermittently in manual labor, entertainment, promotion, automotive work, and various informal enterprises.
+Carl has subsequently worked intermittently in manual labor, entertainment, promotion, automotive work, and various informal enterprises. Most of these arrangements have been short-lived. His employment history is difficult to reconstruct because Carl frequently describes gambling, reselling merchandise, informal contracting, music performances, and personal favors as "jobs."
-Most of these arrangements have been short-lived.
+For a very brief period in 2014 he produced and broadcasted [[Uncle Carl's Radio Show]].
-His employment history is difficult to reconstruct because Carl frequently describes gambling, reselling merchandise, informal contracting, music performances, and personal favors as "jobs."
 [[Timeline of Carl Bird Occupations]]
@@ Line 122: / Line 120: @@
 === Felony and incarceration accounts ===
-Carl's exact felony history is one of the more inconsistent areas of documented continuity.
+Carl's exact felony history is one of the more inconsistent areas of documented continuity. Some accounts describe him as a career misdemeanor offender who has deliberately remained just below the threshold of serious felony prosecution. Other accounts state that Carl was convicted of '''grand larceny in New York''' and served approximately '''eight years in prison''' after committing the crime while attempting to resolve a financial crisis involving [[Tony "No Nose" Catellini]].
-Some accounts describe him as a career misdemeanor offender who has deliberately remained just below the threshold of serious felony prosecution.
-Other accounts state that Carl was convicted of '''grand larceny in New York''' and served approximately '''eight years in prison''' after committing the crime while attempting to resolve a financial crisis involving [[Tony "No Nose" Catellini]].
 His prison tattoos and repeated references to incarceration strongly indicate that Carl has served significant jail or prison time regardless of the precise conviction history.
@@ Line 172: / Line 166: @@
 Carl's actual guitar skill is generally considered limited. He knows several basic chords, blues-rock shapes, and recognizable fragments of common hard-rock riffs. His primary technique consists of aggressive strumming, volume, posing, and pointing at members of the audience. More technically skilled musicians within his social circle tend to tolerate him rather than regard him as a peer. His equipment is usually in poor repair, "like something he traded a set of used tires for at a pawn shop" according to [[Redline]] keyboardist Johann Heimberg.
+== Relationship with technology ==
+Carl seems to be extremely resistant to using pieces of technology that were not in widespread use in the 1980s. He seems to not understand the point of things such as CDs, DVDs, cellular phones or flat panel TVs. Despite clearly running a social media page on Facebook, he appears to only be tangentially aware of what the internet is or how it works. He often mentions relying on VHS and cassette tapes for entertainment, only seems to use land line telephones, often speaks of the utility of CB radio (claiming "all the fat chicks hang out on channel 12") and is fascinated by the idea of playing video games on the Nintendo Entertainment System (the cartridges for which he calls "tapes").
+Carl has made internet posts about various computers he has owned, but all of said computers were completely inadequate for regular use on the internet, having been salvaged from dumps or acquired in a trade at a pawn shop. It is theorized that Carl accesses his Facebook through computers at public libraries.
+When forced to interact with a newer piece of technology, he will often mumble about "all this new shit" and lose interest in attempting to accomplish the task at hand.
 == Personal Relationships ==
 === Juan Gonzalez ===
-One of Carl's longtime associates is '''[[Juan Gonzalez]]'''.
+One of Carl's longtime associates is '''[[Juan Gonzalez]]'''. Carl and Juan have appeared together in numerous contexts, primarily centered around quasi-legal mobile food service ventures, such as their ill-fated food truck business [[Taco Jabronis]]. Gonzalez also works for [[Mercado La Colonia]], a small Mexican grocery store in Melrose Park, Illinois. Carl often appears in and around the store trying obtain store credit or run small time scams on the customers, much to the chagrin of the store's owner/manager '''[[Rakesh Subramanian]]'''.
-Carl and Juan have appeared together in numerous contexts, primarily centered around quasi-legal mobile food service ventures, such as their ill-fated food truck business [[Taco Jabronis]].
 Juan is among the relatively small number of people whom Carl appears to regard as a genuine friend rather than a potential source of transportation, alcohol, money, or temporary housing.
@@ Line 184: / Line 183: @@
 === Zutroy Zagreb ===
-'''[[Zutroy Zagreb]]''' is a Hungarian American booking agent and entertainment-industry connection who has arranged work involving Carl, usually with poor outcomes.
+'''[[Zutroy Zagreb]]''' is a Hungarian-American booking agent and entertainment-industry connection who has arranged work involving Carl, usually with poor outcomes. Zagreb's humorless, transactional personality frequently clashes with Carl's improvisational approach to contracts and scheduling. Zagreb once described Carl as "a fucking clown".
-Zagreb's humorless, transactional personality frequently clashes with Carl's improvisational approach to contracts and scheduling. Zagreb once described Carl as "a fucking clown".
 === Darnell Watson ===
-Carl has repeatedly crossed paths with promoter and entrepreneur '''[[Darnell Watson]]'''.
+Carl has repeatedly crossed paths with promoter and entrepreneur '''[[Darnell Watson]]'''. Watson is associated with the [[Darnell Watson Funk Experience]] and many other haphazardly arranged events.
-Watson is associated with the [[Darnell Watson Funk Experience]] and many other haphazardly arranged events.
 The two possess fundamentally different approaches to business: Watson typically attempts to construct an actual promotional enterprise, while Carl tends to identify opportunities for free admission, alcohol, merchandise resale, side gambling, or unauthorized participation. However, given that Watson's endeavors are frequently quasi-legal, he occasionally relies on Carl to handle some of the event management. (Chasing away people who are asking too many questions, event security or taking the fall in case something goes sideways.)
@@ Line 198: / Line 193: @@
 === Mike Jorpa ===
-'''[[Mike Jorpa]]''' is one of Carl's most persistent antagonists.
+'''[[Mike Jorpa]]''' is is an officious security supervisor known for an unusually rigid interpretation of his limited authority, and someone against whom Carl has declared a personal vendetta due to a series of parking lot loitering incidents throughout the 2020s.
-Jorpa is an officious security supervisor known for an unusually rigid interpretation of his limited authority.
-Carl regards Jorpa with open contempt.
 Their encounters often involve:
-* parking regulations;
+* loitering
-* loitering;
+* open alcohol
-* unauthorized vehicles;
+* smoking
-* open alcohol;
+* fires
-* smoking;
+* littering
-* fires;
+* trespassing
-* littering;
-* trespassing;
-* and Carl's insistence that privately employed security personnel "aren't real cops."
-Jorpa, for his part, appears to view Carl as a personal challenge to the entire concept of rules.
-One notable encounter occurred in an '''Elgin strip-mall parking lot''', where Carl established an informal campsite beside his van despite a prominently posted '''NO LOITERING''' sign.
-Carl sat in a folding lawn chair drinking a tallboy of Miller High Life beside a small burn barrel while Jorpa confronted him from a security golf cart with its amber warning lights activated.
-The surrounding area contained substantial litter.
-The incident has become one of the most recognizable examples of the Carl-Jorpa rivalry.
 == Vehicles ==
@@ Line 232: / Line 210: @@
 He strongly favors 1970s full-size American conversion vans, particularly those featuring:
-* custom murals of fantasy art
+* exterior painted murals of fantasy art
 * shag carpeting
 * nonfunctional interior lighting
@@ Line 247: / Line 225: @@
 * brakes always one hard slam from being completely shot
 * emissions controls being a mere suggestion
-* at least one broken window
+* at least one broken window (usually repaired with packing tape)
 * body damage
 * dragging tailpipe
@@ Line 266: / Line 244: @@
 Hey baby, wanna go for a ride in the sidepipe wagon? This eight track player only plays one song: Space Truckin' by Deep Purple!
 </blockquote>
+Amusingly, Bird has been known to say his van "only plays" other songs as well:
+* Slow Ride by Foghat
+* Frankenstein by Edgar Winter Group
+* Take It On The Run by REO Speedwagon
+* Detroit Rock City by Kiss
+* Radar Love by Golden Earring
 When confronted with inquiries by police or security officials, Carl has denied owning vehicles while standing immediately beside them.
 == Housing ==
+[[File:Carl apartment 2.jpg|thumb|A photo taken by a landlord after evicting Bird]]
 Carl has experienced chronic housing instability.
@@ Line 283: / Line 269: @@
 * parking lots
 * mobile homes
+* a Bank of America vestibule intended for after-hours customer access
-Carl does not generally describe himself as homeless. Instead, he considers himself to have "places to stay." Some accounts describe Carl deliberately cultivating romantic relationships with older women in order to secure temporary housing, such as his disastrous marriage to [[Sue Bob White]] of West Virginia. Carl often publicly laments getting kicked out of Sue Bob's trailer.
+Carl does not generally describe himself as homeless. Instead, he considers himself to have "places to stay." Some accounts describe Carl deliberately cultivating romantic relationships with older women in order to secure temporary housing, such as his disastrous marriage to [[Sue Bob White]] of West Virginia. Carl often publicly laments getting kicked out of Sue Bob's trailer. He also prefers to cohabitate with older women due to their tendency to have various medicines on-hand that he can pilfer.
-[[File:Carl apartment 2.jpg|thumb|A photo taken by a landlord after evicting Bird]]
 On the odd occasion that Carl has been able to secure permanent housing, he is almost immediately evicted due to extreme sanitation, noise, and criminal activity concerns.
 == Gambling ==
-Gambling is one of Carl's most persistent behaviors.
+Gambling is one of Carl's favorite pastimes.
 He regularly participates in:
-* poker;
+* legal and illegal sports betting
-* sports betting;
+* betting on horse and dog races
-* informal card games;
+* betting on Polish table tennis matches
-* lottery schemes;
+* barroom card games
-* bar gambling;
+* lottery and racketeering schemes
-* and wagers involving objects that would not normally be considered appropriate stakes.
+* pool
+* video poker and slot machines
+* wagers involving objects that would not normally be considered appropriate stakes
-Carl has won vans in poker games and has also lost vehicles, musical equipment, money, and personal possessions through gambling.
+Carl has won and lost vehicles, musical equipment and residences through gambling, and he has owed considerable sums of money to various parties throughout his life.
-His understanding of probability appears highly selective.
+== Alcohol, smoking and drug use ==
-Carl generally interprets losing streaks as evidence that he is "due."
+Carl is a heavy smoker. A lit cigarette is present in his mouth almost any time he is photographed, and he has demonstrated little regard for posted smoking restrictions. He once got ejected from Brookfield Zoo for smoking a cigar in a restroom, after which he complained on social media:
-== Alcohol and smoking ==
+<blockquote>
+they don't let you smoke cigars in the bathroom at the zoo no more!
-Carl is a heavy smoker.
+</blockquote>
-A cigarette is present in the overwhelming majority of documented appearances.
-He has demonstrated little regard for posted smoking restrictions.
+Carl is also a functional alcoholic. His drinks of choice include low-end fortified wine, malt liquor, and cheap vodka. He shows little regard for laws involving public intoxication, open containers, and public consumption. The floor of his van is usually littered with empty alcohol containers, something which he attempts to justify to police by claiming that since his van is his home, he's doing nothing wrong. He has also been arrested several times for buying alcohol for minors and has a number of DUIs across multiple states.
-His preferred alcoholic drinks tend toward inexpensive beer and malt liquor.
+He does not consider his relationship with alcohol to be an addiction. When asked about it, Carl simply says “I love drinking, I don’t need it.”
-Miller High Life tallboys are particularly associated with him.
+Carl will generally consume any substance that comes his way, with a strong preference for prescription medications (usually pilfered from whatever medicine cabinet he has access to) and cheap highs such as inhalants. He tends to not buy or sell street drugs (“too much heat”) but always seems to know where to get them. When offered cannabis, he will refuse, claiming things like "that shit's for hippies".
 == Aliases ==

Jon (talk | contribs)